I know I only just posted about this, but I found myself over at Ryan's place and followed a link to a Slate article about The Secret, which led me to a Daily Mail article about it, which was surprisingly good for a Daily Mail article.
Anyway, the Daily Mail article makes explicit what I have always argued The Secret and the LOA say, and what most Secret followers deny they do - that the victim is to blame. And this is confirmed by both Rhonda Byrne and Bob Proctor.
It's straight from the horses mouth people.
The article points out another facet of The Secret I've mentioned before - greed and selfishness:
It seems unusual that a self-help book should take such an extreme hedonistic and self-centred view, but, according to Byrne, true happiness comes from putting yourself before others.
She also assuages any concerns you might have about overt materialism with an unusual interpretation of the Bible - saying that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses and Jesus were all millionaires, "with more affluent lifestyles than many present-day millionaires could conceive of".
Here's what Byrne thinks about how this works:
We are all, she states, "human transmission towers", emitting thoughts on a particular frequency and attracting "all like things that are on the same frequency".
This is why, she says, if you think negative thoughts, then bad things will happen. [my emphasis]
This is the author of The Secret remember - this IS what The Secret is about.
The article goes on:
Byrne believes that if someone has cancer, they can cure themselves by laughing - which implies that the converse is also true; that their cancer has been caused by negative thinking.
Astonishingly, she even says this outright: "Illness cannot exist in a body that has harmonious thoughts."
Yes, you read that right. If you have cancer, The Secret says IT IS YOUR FAULT. Cancer is caused by your negative thoughts. Medical science is wrong. Cancer treatment is wrong.
This is total fucking bullshit. It is irresponsible reckless crap pronounced by a clueless idiot who deserves nothing but contempt and scorn, not admiration. Rhonda Byrne is scum.
So what about those caught up in wars, acts of terrorism and natural disasters?
The hundreds of thousands killed in the Asian tsunami, the thousands who died on 9/11, the millions put to death in the Holocaust? Are we simply to assume it was all their own fault?
Byrne sounds rather weary as she skirts round this subject in her book but, basically, her answer is an extraordinary yes.
"By the law of attraction, they had to be on the same frequency as the event," she says, allowing only a small concession: "It doesn't necessarily mean they thought of that event."
Are you getting this believers in The Secret? Do you understand why I seem so angry now? Rhonda Byrne blames the Jews for the Holocaust.
And let's not forget how this actually contradicts everything Byrne says about The Secret and the LOA. In order to get something positive for yourself you have to visualise it exactly, you have to make preparations for that thing to arrive in order to attract it. So, how come negative things can happen if you are having just vaguely negative thoughts not even related to the event? Why didn't all the victims of the tsunami have to visualise the tsunami exactly in order for it to happen to them? Why didn't they have to make preparations for it in order to attract it? Why doesn't vaguely thinking about something positive attract that positive thing when vaguely thinking about any negative thing attracts a specific negative event not even related to the negative thoughts? Were all the victims of the tsunami thinking vaguely about some negative thing whilst all the survivors were not?
Of course, we know the answer don't we? Everyone thinks vaguely about positive stuff, but that stuff doesn't then magically happen. If it did, Byrne wouldn't be able to make millions selling this shit.
An interviewer on ABC's Nightline in America recently posed a similar question to Bob Proctor, one of the positive thinking experts quoted at length in Byrne's book.
"Children in Darfur are starving to death," she pointed out. "Have they attracted that starvation to themselves?"
Proctor replied: "I think the country probably has."
Fucking prick. And actually a contradiction of everything he allegedly believes in. Countries don't have intentions, people do. So he is blaming the victim whilst appearing not to. He is a slimy lying weasel.
The article closes echoing sentiments shared by many skeptics:
It strikes me that one person, and one person only, has truly benefitted from Byrne's positive thinking and visualisation theories - and that's the woman who tapped out this volume dreaming of earning millions.
Byrne must now be earning royalties from every single one of those multi-million sales.
You bet I'm angry about this. You bet I'm aggressive when arguing against it. Why the fuck aren't you dear Secret believer?
Well JB, you should purchase that t-shirt I found and wear it to work. www.tshirthell.com.
ReplyDeleteLaters,
Ryan Michael Whitmore
It's obviously embarrassing for them, but it's either blame the victim, or make their teachings more complicated and less marketable. A very easy choice if you're a ruthless, ignorant piece of shit like Byrne et al.
ReplyDeleteYou know Ryan, that's not a bad idea...
ReplyDeleteAnd Yakaru, I couldn't agree more. I wish I could have been there when the first person to put it to Byrne asked "So, do you really blame the victim when X happens to them?" and the slow look of realisation crept across her face - busted, worm your way out of this without collapsing the whole house of cards.
Now we know it isn't mental gymnastics, they just lie through their teeth and people lap it up.
Yeah, ideas like that have been circulating in esoteric circles for hundreds of years. But not in this greedy pig-ignorant form. They've just gutted some old mystical ideas and interspersed it with advertising.
ReplyDeleteWilliam Blake put it like this:
What is the price of experience? Do men buy it for a song?
Or wisdom for a dance in the street? No, it is bought with the price
Of all a man hath, his house, his wife, his children.
Wisdom is sold in the desolate market where none come to buy,
And in the wither’d field where the farmer plows for bread in vain.
It is an easy thing to triumph in the summer’s sun
And in the vintage and to sing on the waggon loaded with corn.
It is an easy thing to talk of prudence to the afflicted,
To speak the laws of prudence to the houseless wanderer,
To listen to the hungry raven’s cry in wintry season
When the red blood is fill’d with wine and with the marrow of lambs.
It is an easy thing to laugh at wrathful elements,
To hear the dog howl at the wintry door, the ox in the slaughterhouse moan;
To see a god on every wind and a blessing on every blast;
To hear sounds of love in the thunder-storm that destroys our enemies’ house;
To rejoice in the blight that covers his field, and the sickness that cuts off his children,
While our olive and vine sing and laugh round our door, and our children bring fruits and flowers.
Then the groan and the dolour are quite forgotten, and the slave grinding at the mill,
And the captive in chains, and the poor in the prison, and the soldier in the field
When the shatter’d bone hath laid him groaning among the happier dead.
It is an easy thing to rejoice in the tents of prosperity:
Thus could I sing and thus rejoice: but it is not so with me.
What's with all the "Secret" bashing? I can't believe people are getting so angry over a simple book, someone's opinion? People are giving the book more power than it truly deserves. I've read the Secret and saw the movie. Much of it isn't that much of a secret. It's been said in a variety of places. She just learned how to market it. It's free enterprise, is that a crime? Why take the best and throw out the rest? How many people really follow any self-help book to the letter? Seriously? Personally, I have more respect for Rhonda Byrne than I do meanspirited and intolerant people like Dr. Laura Schlessinger who consistently refer to people and actions as stupid. That woman is a master at blaming the victim as is Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck...so where's the (self) righteous indignation against them?
ReplyDeleteI always hear this argument to defend assholes like Byrne "It is her opinion" or "It is her right". Well, duh. You know what my opinion is? That she is an ASSHOLE and it is not a crime for me to say she is a immoral and dead wrong. Also, The Secret is not some private conversation, it is a book advocating victim blaming and dignifying injustice. These things do have effect on millions of impressionable people and once an idea sinks into someone's head it is very difficult to change regardless of how wrong it is. It is important for reasonable people to highlight the awful implications of the ideas she is promoting.
DeleteI agree with you, not only she is wrong and immoral, she is twisting ancient spiritual beliefs to give to her LOA theory more value, if she is absolute she will enforce to the people the belief that something is a real LAW consciously and subconsciously. No it is NOT her right to pass blame the victim mentality it took us thousands of years to reach as humanity a level of understanding and to have best possible good justice, imagine all her followers to get raped or to be abused physically, they might not even report it to the police, her followers are in that level believers, they have lost touch with reality with all this Abraham, Secret crap.
DeleteAnd what love and positive energy? I was a member in Powerful Intentions Forum for 5 years, when I became active member and I was posting every time I would disagree with blame the victim or about morality or other little things, I would get a huge tail of people who would try to disprove me agreeing and FLATTERING each other, and psychologically to cut me from the big loving company circle, the SAME tail will follow to almost all of my posts when I would disagree with their crap.
But they didn't get that I am not one of those people who will be boohoo they don;t love me, The biggest sickening thing was when a pedophile was posting all over the place about pedophilia and how sad is people who are pedophiles to discover such thing and other stuff, and people instead of suggesting to go see a psychologist or some type of professional to get help, they welcome him with open arms claiming that the Universe DOESN'T CARE IF HE IS A PEDOPHILE, I will be a parent soon, there is absolutely NO way I will ever have any association with such people, nobody knows who are those people, that was for me the final hit, this is when I realized those people are very sick minded and the whole LOA is a very negative cultist belief. AVOID on all costs!
And parents BE VERY CAREFUL, if they welcome a pedophile with such love, you never know who your kid will meet if they or you are active in that forum!
Also, if you're an athiest i.e. infidel, and don't believe a supreme being or a higher power exists, then why do you feel so threatened by a book like the Secret? Think about that one for a moment, will you?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous wrote:
ReplyDeleteIt's free enterprise, is that a crime?
No but homicide is.
What's with all the "Secret" bashing? I can't believe people are getting so angry over a simple book, someone's opinion?
ReplyDeleteAnd that shows either that you didn’t really read the two posts I have made on the subject, or you don’t understand them.
People are giving the book more power than it truly deserves.
On that we agree. The people who believe the nonsense that it preaches really do give it more power than it deserves. Like the woman who gave up her cancer treatment because she thought the Secret could cure her.
Much of it isn't that much of a secret.
A point I’ve been making since I first heard of the Secret, and a point I make in the two posts I have so far done on the Secret.
It's free enterprise, is that a crime?
No. But fraud is. You must be one of those people who really doesn’t care about anyone else as long as money can be made – which explains why you are defending the Secret.
Why take the best and throw out the rest?
Why take any of it, if it is already common knowledge?
How many people really follow any self-help book to the letter?
You really just don’t get this do you? There are plenty of people following the Secret, but even that isn’t the whole of it. But then I guess you are ok with someone lying and blaming rape victims for what happened to them, as long as they are just in it for the money.
Seriously?
Yes, seriously. Perhaps you should actually do some research before running your mouth off. I’ve encountered a woman who, based on her belief in the Secret and Law of Attraction believed if her daughter was raped then her daughter would be at fault.
Personally, I have more respect for Rhonda Byrne than I do meanspirited and intolerant people like Dr. Laura Schlessinger who consistently refer to people and actions as stupid.
And there, identified by your own words, is exactly what sort of person you are – you respect someone who blames victims of crime for what happened to them, as long as she is just in it for the money. You respect someone who thinks Holocaust victims brought it on themselves, as long as she is just in it for the money. Many people and actions are stupid – deal with it. If you respect Byrne you’d be included in there. If you think the Secret has something to offer, you’d be included in there.
That woman is a master at blaming the victim as is Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck...so where's the (self) righteous indignation against them?
You are either a moron or a cold hearted prick. Byrne admits, in her own words, that the Secret (her work) blames the victim. Did you even read the post? And who says I am a fan of Limbaugh or Beck? I can’t stand either of them but just because I haven’t posted on them means nothing other than I haven’t written a blog post on them yet.
Also, if you're an athiest i.e. infidel, and don't believe a supreme being or a higher power exists, then why do you feel so threatened by a book like the Secret?
I do know what an atheist is, was that supposed to be a pathetic attempt at an insult? It isn’t about a supreme being and it has nothing to do with feeling threatened. I care about the people suckered in by the Secret. I care about the victims made to feel worse if they are exposed to this crap. I am angered by people making money by lying to others. I care about people giving up their medical care because they think positive thinking will cure them. You obviously don’t. Think about that one for a moment, will you?
Yes, it is true that the book does blame victims.
ReplyDeleteI have read in other books too(i think in Rich Dad Poor Dad) 1% of the worlds population makes around 96% of the money being made
Look at it this way, Poor people are victims and
rich people control and exploit poor people (Capitalism - look at Adam Smith's theory)
Poor people are angry but they allow themselves to "run on the treadmill with no power" or "be that donkey chasing after the carrot"
I believe that Rhonda has a point that victims are victims because they don't change the way they think.
Poor people don't make money- they earn it and piss it away like there is not fucking tomorrow.
Poor people have thoughts like "money doesn't grow on trees" and rich people would be like "I WILL MAKE A FUCKING FOREST FULL OF TREES THAT GROWS MONEY AS FAST AS LICE ON HAIR AND HAVE THE POOR HARVEST THIS SHIT!!!"
Rene Decartes, his famous quote "I think therefore I am." (parallel to what Rhonda mentions - your thoughts create you)
The Secret incorporates ideas of famous people, she did not make these ideas, she just rediscovered them and do what shes gotta do for whatever the fuck she wants to do because she knows how to apply the secret and she just did.
I think in the movie or book it mentioned that it sounds like a lie (what is the truth?)
According to Kierkegaard the truth is subjective (and math is objective or something), you can change the truth.
Lawyers in court-they fucking turn shit into gold. (They don't lie they use loopholes and sketchy shit to get people where they want)
MAKE THE BEST OUT OF THIS - like she said if it doesn't work for you, don't use it.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteYes, it is true that the book does blame victims.
Well at least you admit that the Secret does blame Holocaust victims etc for what happened to them. Most Secret believers simply refuse to accept this unpalatable truth. Sadly for you, this is pretty much the only rational part of your post.
I have read in other books too(i think in Rich Dad Poor Dad) 1% of the worlds population makes around 96% of the money being made
Sorry, assertions you think you read in a book somewhere don't cut it - please cite a definite source for this. The only ones I could find were, you guessed it, from people connected to the Secret or its promoters. What a surprise. Prove it. What is it with Secret believers and monetary greed anyway?
Regardless of the accuracy of the claim, it has absolutely sod all to do with whether or not the Secret is true and does not excuse the fact that the Secret promotes the idea that victims of child abuse are to blame for their abuse.
Poor people are angry but they allow themselves to "run on the treadmill with no power" or "be that donkey chasing after the carrot"
Nothing but amateur anthropology/sociology and nothing to back it up - typical Secret fan.
I believe that Rhonda has a point that victims are victims because they don't change the way they think.
Then you are as morally bankrupt, immoral and stupid as she is.
Poor people have thoughts like "money doesn't grow on trees" and rich people would be like "I WILL MAKE A FUCKING FOREST FULL OF TREES THAT GROWS MONEY AS FAST AS LICE ON HAIR AND HAVE THE POOR HARVEST THIS SHIT!!!"
More baseless assertions with no evidence to back them up. Where's your evidence?
Rene Decartes, his famous quote "I think therefore I am." (parallel to what Rhonda mentions - your thoughts create you)
You don't have a clue what Descartes was actually talking about with that phrase do you? I'll give you a hint - it has nothing to do with the Secret or the LoA and bears no resemblance to your summary of it. Descartes was also actually full of bollocks on a lot of stuff.
The Secret incorporates ideas of famous people, she did not make these ideas
So what? Famous people believing stupid shit is nothing new - and famous people believing something doesn't mean that the something is right.
she just rediscovered them
I guess. If your definition of 'rediscovered' is 'made shit up and then pretended that some famous people who are no longer around to say otherwise believed what she had made up.' Did you ever stop to think why all these great minds she cites as believing what she does are dead now? How convenient for her, nobody can actually ask them their opinion on the Secret.
and do what shes gotta do for whatever the fuck she wants to do because she knows how to apply the secret and she just did.
And back to the typical greed and arrogance of the Secret believer - "Hey, if we can make money, who gives a fuck?"
I think in the movie or book it mentioned that it sounds like a lie (what is the truth?)
Yes, it does sound like a lie. I wonder why? If it quacks like a duck it isn't likely to be a rhino, is it? I can't imagine why the promoters of this shit would want to try and dismiss the idea that it sounds like a lie. Can you?
According to Kierkegaard the truth is subjective (and math is objective or something), you can change the truth.
Oh, well if he said it then it must be true I guess. You can change truth. World War II didn't happen. See, I changed truth. Oh wait...
MAKE THE BEST OUT OF THIS - like she said if it doesn't work for you, don't use it.
Yes, that's right rape victim - make the best out of the fact that you are (according to the Secret) to blame for what happened to you. But if you don't want to that is ok - you can ignore it whilst other people go around saying you are still to blame, they are just in it for the money after all.
Are all believers in the Secret this fucking callous, idiotic and amoral?
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteTo add to Jimmy's comments, here's one of the Secret stars for you, James Ray, blogging in early October this year on how to
Live in a world of your own choosing. Earlier he'd criticised Obama for "not knowing how the universe functios".
This was shortly before he caused the deaths of three people and put 19 in hospital, several of them in intensive care with multiple organ failure.
One participant who had hoped to attend, and had indeed already paid, couldn't make it. She seems to have slipped into a psychosis and committed suicide two months earlier, during a group also run by James Ray. Ray and his staff simply abandoned her body and
covered up the incident as best they could....Oh yeh, and
had a party too, of course. Jeez, no need for shock or guilt if victims are responsible for themselves, is there?
Shortly after the sweat lodge deaths, Ray contacted some of the survivors and told them that the victims had left their bodies and were having such fun they decided not to come back. We choose everything that happens to us, see?
Does Ray really believe that?
Read the other posts on his blog, and suddenly you notice a change - horrible tragedy, an accident, etc. He doesn't believe any of that Secret crap at all.
Sure, he's fine with the idea that when other people have hardships it's their own stupid fault - one of his favourite expressions is "get over it!". But when it's his own neck on the line, the rules suddenly change.
If you think he's an exception among The Secret teachers, consult google - name + "scandal".
None of them believe it either.
Jimmy Blue (SMART?)
ReplyDeleteI am gonna say all ur arguments are Fallacies (most used: fallacy of attack on the person)
My turn?
"Nothing but amateur anthropology/sociology and nothing to back it up - typical secret fan"
I am not a fan of the secret - i am a fan of Bullshit
I like you because you are Bullshit
Your arguments are Bullshit
You are my most reliable source that proves that poor people are angry and "run on the treadmill with no power" or "be the donkey chasing after a carrot"
I don't know you but i am 100% sure you are "climbing a ladder" you work for the rich (you are not part of that 1% of the population that makes 96% of the money being made - maybe you are but not likely because you don't understand the concept of exploiting workers -- the Adam Smith theory)
So right now everyday you run out that door the first thing you think of is that carrot (paycheck) then at the end of the day you get that carrot then you come home log on your account and go on this blog talk a little shit
the next morning you wake the fuck up and the first thing you think of is - the carrot
You eat some of the carrot (you need food and some random stuff you want)
and you save some
Then one day you think you have a lot of carrots and eat it like crazy (spend money)
You just pissed it away on mortgage, cars and family whatever you do like a middle-class or poor person
All i am saying is that people allow themselves to do this either they know it or not. (if you don't want then WHY THE FUCK ARE U DOING IT?)
The rich build ladders and control it
I don't believe everything in the book I know for a fact that it is for money but i make the best out of this and relate it to real life.
I don't follow the Secret
I make my own concept of the Secret
All i am saying is...don't trash the valuable ideas
What are valuable ideas?
-whatever the fuck you understand and want it to be
The rich build ladders and control it
ReplyDeleteExactly! And how do they do that? They claim that
a) they got to the top of the ladder fairly, using xyz method, and
b) if you use xyz method you can also join them there.
Sums up the Secret perfectly. The Secret was promoted by Oprah, which made the makers rich. They then use their wealth as "proof" that it "worked for them". So of course, it will work for you too, (but only if you can manifest Oprah to promote your work).
What are valuable ideas?
-whatever the fuck you understand and want it to be
Exactly, the rich don't deserve to be criticised for building a trick ladder. They don't even have to be accountable for their crimes, including fraud, embezzelment, theft, manslaughter, and gross negligence. If the LoA works, then why do the people who teach it need to resort to such tactics?
But it's negative to criticise. They even have people like you to defend them, even though you clearly know you have to make your "own concept" out of it. It's your own concept, but you still defend "The Secret".
They have built a ladder in your mind (beliefs about how the universe functions) and immunized you against accepting any criticism of the ideas or of the teachers themselves - even to the point that if you're smart enough to see you need to make your own concept out of it, you will still refuse in principle to accept criticism of the ladder.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteI am gonna say all ur arguments are Fallacies
And yet you are unable to say which ones, where and why. What a surprise.
(most used: fallacy of attack on the person)
It would be a fallacy if I was saying "You're a douchebag and therefore you're wrong." But I am not. I am saying "This is why you are wrong. And you're a douchebag." My way is just an insult. But then, I think people who promote and defend the idea that victims are to blame for what happened to them are most definitely worth insulting. I find it more interesting that you don't.
Apparently you agree with and defend the idea that victims of child abuse are to blame for it.
I am not a fan of the secret - i am a fan of Bullshit
Yes, I had noticed that.
Your arguments are Bullshit
And yet you don't seem able to say why. What a surprise.
You are my most reliable source that proves that poor people are angry and "run on the treadmill with no power" or "be the donkey chasing after a carrot"
Again with the amateur sociology, baseless assertions and unwarranted assumptions. What is your evidence? What is your definition of poor?
And ease up on the build up to the ad hominem here. That's the fallacy you attempted to accuse me of, by the way. You're attempting to dismiss my arguments not through their content, but because I am one of those poor dumb blind people you like to patronise. That makes it a fallacy.
I don't know you but i am 100% sure you are "climbing a ladder"
More assumptions. Incidentally - what do you do for a living? Do you work for someone or yourself? Are you rich or poor? What do you work for? Do you own 'stuff'? I can take a good guess but I want to see if you understand your own hypocrisy or if you flail blindly through life never seeing further than the end of your nose.
you are not part of that 1% of the population that makes 96% of the money being made
Cite a source for this or drop it. Where is your evidence?
maybe you are but not likely because you don't understand the concept of exploiting workers
And you know this how, exactly? Be specific.
So right now everyday you run out that door the first thing you think of is that carrot (paycheck) then at the end of the day you get that carrot then you come home log on your account and go on this blog talk a little shit
Nope, try again. Just chock full of prejudices, projection and assumption aren't you. Typical Secret fan.
You just pissed it away on mortgage, cars and family whatever you do like a middle-class or poor person
Don't have a mortgage and why would spending money on family be a bad thing? And now I may be middle class or poor. Please do make up your mind. Couldn't the middle class be considered wealthy? Are you upper class?
What are valuable ideas?
-whatever the fuck you understand and want it to be
More meaningless crap. Typical Secret fan.
Nothing new to see here, move along people.
LOL you can criticize anyone
ReplyDeleteYou can criticize the poor or middle class and rich
All you are doing is staying in the same class
To transcend and really change classes you must think like the people in those class
All i am saying is that u guys hate the secret because u don't know how to use it at ur advantage
Robbinhood story
-if u think stealing from the rich to feed the poor (u are most likely to be poor)
K that 1% of the pop makes 96% of the money....forget the numbers....It means rich makes more money than anyone else and controls the distribution of money (it is a monetary concept)
u want to know how but u don't and u criticize and telling me it is bad and i should hate myself
I don't use everything in the Secret
IDC
the Secret is suppose to tell how u can be happy
Y are u not happy?...is ur sadness going to get u what u want?
u guys hate the secret because u don't know how to use it at ur advantage
ReplyDeleteHa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
As I said, the people who made the film don't know how to use it, as is obvious from the multiple criminal and fraud investigations they are currently facing.
To transcend and really change classes you must think like the people in those class
Wrong. Those guys didn't get rich using the methods they told you about in the secret.
David Schirmer didn't get rich by doing what he told you to do in the film - visualising checks arriving in your letter box. He got rich by lying to people after gaining their trust, and then literally making off with their cash.
Similar with James Ray. He got a rich using NLP, hypnosis and other subtle methods to manipulate people into signing up for his groups in advance, to the tune of 20 or $30,000. James Ray didn't tell you how he does that in The Secret, did he.
They have been keeping secrets from you.
A vision, a motivation, good planning, a positive outlook and being able to handle stress are certainly invaluable for a good life. But believing "the universe" cares about your plans is unnecessary for that, and also makes you vulnerable to a priesthood that claims to know how to manipulate the universe into giving them what it wants.
All they really know how to do is manipulate you into giving them what they, and you are doing that for them admirably.
The film was designed to turn its fans into walking advertisements for the film. The guy who designed it was a marketing hotshot who also invented the "viral marketing" technique by which it was promoted. (Unfortunately Ms Byrne didn't get around to paying him, so he's suing her. He now jokingly refers to himself as "Mr Universe", being the main cause of Rhonda's wealth.) I would add some links if you wanted, but I guess all that reality based stuff wouldn't interest you.
Y are u not happy?...is ur sadness going to get u what u want?
Oh yeh, I forgot to mention fear. Behind all this positive talk is always this fear lurking. Get The Secret or suffer. "I got the Secret, so I'm saved, and you can laugh but you're going to hell".
You got a whole lot of emotional baggage you didn't bargain for, and now you're too scared to question it, or even allow others to question it.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteLOL you can criticize anyone
Well, duh.
You can criticize the poor or middle class and rich
All you are doing is staying in the same class
If you buy into the class system.
To transcend and really change classes you must think like the people in those class
Which assumes that there is some thought process that applies completely to one class or another. Have fun demonstrating and proving that.
All i am saying is that u guys hate the secret because u don't know how to use it at ur advantage
Yes we know that is what you are saying. However, you can't and haven't proved this and I am telling you that you are so far off the mark you're not even on the same planet. It is, yet again, an assumption on your part. You clearly don't understand why I have a problem with the Secret and its believers even after I have repeatedly pointed it out to you.
K that 1% of the pop makes 96% of the money....forget the numbers....
In other words - I want to make a claim I don't have to prove and I want everyone to accept it as true. No, not how it works. Prove this silly claim or drop it.
u want to know how but u don't and u criticize and telling me it is bad and i should hate myself
Prove that any of the claims you make here are true. I'll give you a hint, none of them are. Where did I say you should hate yourself, for instance?
I don't use everything in the Secret
So? You still believe the shit about victims being to blame for what happened to them. That makes you scum.
the Secret is suppose to tell how u can be happy
By telling you it is your fault that your family has been ethnically cleansed and you hounded out of your country. Seems a funny way to do it.
Y are u not happy?...is ur sadness going to get u what u want?
More assumptions you can't prove but the Secret has brainwashed you into thinking.
I pity you, thinking that only money can make a person happy.
I also note that you never answered any of my questions. I wonder why...
Yakaru:
You should start a blog as well - I really like your take on criticising the Secret.
Jimmy I think you should see a doctor for real
ReplyDeleteI said forget the numbers so rich ppl make more money than poor people
U keep saying what i say are assumptions - you are assuuming that they are assumptions
Maybe they are but prove it bitch
Prove that u are not a robot prove that u are not retarded which is clear that u are because u don't even know what u are arguing about if u do prove it Prove it and Prove it and then u will be the smartest guy and after u become the smartest guy u must prove it then prove it then prove it then go fuck yourself =)
Thanks for the compliment, Jimmy!
ReplyDeleteAfter watching this James Ray story unfolding, I've been thinking seriously about starting a blog. It's quite clear the way the movie & book dismantle peoples ability to think sensibly (see poor Anonymous's comment, or any other comments by a Secretard - they always use the same negative tecniques and pissweak attempts at fear and manipulation).
But the details of the Ray story show that that is just the start. They use even heavier techniques to dismantle peoples entire psychological defenses, in the guise of old shamanistic techniques - which have been twisted to serve a different purpose.
His "sweat lodge" was in fact quite literally a heat torture - with the difference that when the military does it they have medical staff present to make sure the victim doesn't die.
Ray's behaviour in relation to his victim from an earlier group, Colleen Conaway, shows that death of participants is simply not one of his concerns. Participants were stripped of ID, money and cell phones etc, dressed up as homeless people and left to wander through San Diego for a few hours (again a distortion of an old shamanistic technique). Colleen seems to have slipped into a psychosis by some earlier Ray confrontative mind game and in that state jumped over a railing in a mall and killed herself.
Ray's staff saw her die and simply abandoned her body (with no ID) for the police to take care of. Participants asked about her and were told "We found her, she's fine and decided not to come back to the group." After which they had a party with funny skits etc. During the party a couple of Ray's staff slipped out and left a couple of messages for Colleen on the cell phone they had taken from her saying "we're looking for you", and then contacted the authorities.
Colleen had already signed for a package of groups, and they stilled booked the remaining ones up from her credit card. She was unfortunately already too dead to be sitting in that sweat lodge, but they took her payment for it anyway.
His initial response to the sweat lodge deaths was just as ruthless and bizarre. Yet Secretards have tried to defend him along exactly the same lines as Anonymous uses above. A Secret guru can do no wrong. It's the victim's fault - even if they are gasping for their last breath in front of you.
He killed 3 and put 19 in hospital and actively opposed resuscitation attempts. CPR is for losers.
This Secret shit is the doorway to a racket that is much more calculated and ruthless than we skeptics ever realised. All that quantum shit they talk is just to keep the critical thinkers at a safe distance so they can get on with the real business in private.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteThanks for proving my point about how ignorant, stupid and hypocritical believers in the Secret are.
Jimmy I think you should see a doctor for real
Sorry, I'm more likely to take advice from a cardboard box than an idiot like you.
I said forget the numbers so rich ppl make more money than poor people
You made an entirely different claim to this, couldn't prove it, and then wanted to drop it as if it was not important. Typical Secret believer. You didn't simply claim that rich people make more money than poor people.
U keep saying what i say are assumptions - you are assuuming that they are assumptions
Truly you are an idiot. If you don't know anything about me, but make a supposition based on your own personal opinion, that is an assumption.
Prove that u are not a robot prove that u are not retarded
So, you repeat the same arguments the Secret has programmed you to, but I'm the robot? You can barely string together a coherent argument in passable English but I am the retard?
u don't even know what u are arguing about
From the person who still doesn't understand the problem I have with the Secret even after I have repeatedly pointed it out? Oh, by the way, prove I don't know what I am talking about.
after u become the smartest guy u must prove it then prove it then prove it then go fuck yourself
And who could argue with that kind of devastating intellect and wit?
You're a pathetic joke merely mouthing childish attempts at philosophy and repeating other people's already discredited ideas.
Pathetic. Typical Secretard. Despite everything Yakaru has pointed out, despite everything that has been said, you still just don't get it. You still just don't care.
It's all about the money for you.
Just pathetic.
I just happened to find your very enjoyable blog while looking for information about the Secret (after hearing about it on Skeptoid). It is frightening to me that anybody could take this horseshit seriously. I only hope that all Secret fans are as stupid and ineffectual as Mr. Anonymous. (Oprah doesn't count...while stupid in many ways she is tragically effectual in promoting pseudoscience.)
ReplyDeleteWell thanks and feel free to stick around! I've been quiet lately but will get back to blogging soon.
ReplyDelete"In a letter written shortly before his escape from the Glenwood Springs jail, Bundy said "I have known people who...radiate vulnerability. Their facial expressions say 'I am afraid of you.' These people invite abuse... By expecting to be hurt, do they subtly encourage it?""
ReplyDeleteYea it is the victim's fault. Shut the fuck up.
Funny you should mention that, Anonymous, because that phenomenon of a psychopath recognising a "victim" when he sees one, is known, studied and even documented. It's nothing esoteric.
ReplyDeletePeople who were abused as children or severely traumatised as adults carry tensions in their musculature that affects their movements and facial expressions. People known to be psychopaths can indeed detect these signals much more swiftly than normal non-psychopaths. A study of it is mentioned on this documentary, starting about 1 minute in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=IhpXdpgHcMM&feature=related
The stars of The Secret have learned how to do something similar. The way that film was created and promoted was aimed especially at triggering particular emotions in people. If you take the next step of attending one of their seminars, the selection process would continue, leading some, step by step into debt, and sifting out those who might ask tricky questions or cause dissent.
Secret star James Ray (currently facing three manslaughter charges) is maybe the only violent psychopath of the team, but the others are just as ruthless in bleeding their victims dry.
Many who were severely injured at James Ray had paid him tens of thousands, but didn't have medical insurance, because, like you, they believed in the law of attraction. Even the dead who had booked future seminars on their credit card still get charged for them, despite the fact it was Ray who killed them. The bereaved have finished up having to pay Ray or fight him in court to stop the payments.
I know, Anonymous, you would say, "Well, they created it", but look what happens when the boot is on the other foot.
James Ray's entire defense in court next month will rest on the idea that the deaths he caused were a "tragic accident" and he is not responsible. He also got his bail reduced because he said he couldn't raise the money.
You have been conned, Anonymous. The stars of The Secret don't believe in the law of attraction, and do not live according to it. Ray said that the holocaust was the victims fault, and even that much good came from it, but now that it's his own ass on the line, it's a different story.
But unlike those who teach it, you believe in it, and even try to publically defend it. And as always, Secretards like you have no argument other than ill-informed hogwash and insults.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteIf you choose to post again pick a pseudonym to post under or all further comments will be deleted.
Yea it is the victim's fault.
So there really is no difference between you and Bundy then, is there? That must be very comforting for you to know. He thought they deserved it, so do you.
Shut the fuck up.
Oh how could I refuse such an intelligent and witty comeback?
Yakaru has far more patience for dealing with people like you than I do. All I really have to say to someone like you is that I truly, sincerely hope that you are a victim of the sort of serious crime you think others deserve, because you are in fact far more deserving of it than most.
People like you are scum.
That was always the big flaw in The Secret, for me; when it comes down to things like Tsunami's, or The Holocaust.
ReplyDeleteThe people who write these books tend to come from a place of privilege. Even if, sure, Jack Canfield struggled a bit when he was young; there's still privilege of being in the Western world, of being American, of being white -- and this notion of 'being positive will cure all!' is based on the reality, perhaps, of the lives of Rhonda Byrne or Jack Canfield or that guy who's going to jail for deaths at his positivity lodge (James Ray?) -- but it is not the reality of a woman getting raped every day in the Congo, or a little disabled boy in Pakistan whose family got washed away in the floods. And it pisses me off that they can be so ignorant and discriminate of these truths of life.
I'm sorry if this has been covered in your comments-- there's so many, I didn't want to read all of them!
Good points all Kid - these kinds of "You can help yourself by wishful thinking etc" arguments almost always come from people who don't have to and never have struggled to feed themselves or their children.
ReplyDeleteI find libertarians are almost always the same too - no-one living off food stamps thinks it would be a good idea to get rid of government and welfare or waste their time hoping the Universe will turn up trumps for them.
Great, great thread. Jimmy, glad I found your blog and Yakaru, you, too. Anonymous really lost it--as many of these "positive thinkers" do when challenged. Quoting Ted Bundy, wow! I wonder why The Secret promoters don't work that into their presentations--"buy our crap or serial killers will get you because of your pathetic expression!"
ReplyDeleteI hope you will check out my blog
Tiptoethruthemindfield@blogspot.com
This month I'm writing about spiritual bullying.
Say, isn't it about time for religious fundamentalists to start singing their carol, "Kill the Atheists Who are Making War on Christmas"???
Thanks Vera, I had a quick look at your blog and liked the article I read so I'll definitely be giving it a read as soon as I have some spare time!
ReplyDeleteFabulous thread! Yes, I think this type of ideology of the secret is very devastating and destructive to say the least such as robbing us of our humanity and authenticity. There are other types of new age, less direct ways, of saying the same thing: ie blame the victim.
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad that people are starting to expose this for what this is. And yes, I'm a Barbara Erinright fan too! --KS
This is a wonderful article thank you for writing it. I sense a resentment and anger in you with people who choose to believe in the secret. I have it too. I think it is interesting the commenter who says they simplified the message to make it more marketable. I think there is truth to the theories but my understanding is the deeper meaning requires you to detach from the outcome. This means if you are miserable if you are without money, you will stay stuck. So at that point you are probably getting into Buddhism type practices and at THAT point..the law of attraction becomes less attractive.
ReplyDeleteWell, you sense incorrectly then. I resent the people who push the Secret on others and claim it works, not the people who fall for it. Exactly what truth do you think there is to these 'theories'? Just sounds to me like you choose to believe one form of bullshit and not another. It's all all just bullshit to me.
DeleteCorrection. I wrote Law of Attraction That should have read "Law" of Attraction. It is by NO means a law.
ReplyDeleteYou have to remember that she also says how negative thoughts bring about negative events. There are two energies - positive and negative.
ReplyDeleteNow if Hitler focused so much on hatred and negativity and had a strong love of power, didn't that also manifest in the form of millions of people's deaths?
A Holocaust victim may have used the Law of Attraction and the power of love and all the principles of the secret, but that didn't ultimately mean his/her life would be spared would it?
And an extremely negative person in one of the concentration camps, say, had no idea of the Secret, and was constantly scared of being killed, yet by a random series of miraculous events, managed to survive?
At the end of the day, these events rely purely on luck, and while the positive/happy/ person using the Secret may have more of a chance of good things happening to them - we are not invincible.
However, lets say a prisoner had so much hope and visualized themselves getting out, being free, and feeling as if they had this happiness and freedom, while another inmate feared the worst, and constantly thought of death, who do you think would be more likely to attract freedom?
Can't access my Google account at the moment because the HTC One S is a pig pile of shite, but this is me.
DeleteAnonymous - if you wish to continue to post pick a name to post under, no more anonymous comments will be allowed and I will delete them as soon as I have access to my account again.
As for your post I have one word: bollocks.
You have to remember that she also says how negative thoughts bring about negative events. There are two energies - positive and negative.
Nonsense. You might want to do some research on those words you are using. They don't mean what you think they do. How exactly do negative thoughts bring about negative events?
Now if Hitler focused so much on hatred and negativity and had a strong love of power, didn't that also manifest in the form of millions of people's deaths?
No. Only someone with the barest understanding of reality would be able to write that sentence and mean it in all seriousness.
A Holocaust victim may have used the Law of Attraction and the power of love and all the principles of the secret, but that didn't ultimately mean his/her life would be spared would it?
Nope, primarily because the LoA and the Secret are complete bullshit. So maybe you need to think about what that means for what you just said about Hitler. Go on, you're so close to understanding. Don't stop now.
And an extremely negative person in one of the concentration camps, say, had no idea of the Secret, and was constantly scared of being killed, yet by a random series of miraculous events, managed to survive?
You're so close and yet seem to be missing the point completely.
At the end of the day, these events rely purely on luck
So you do get it.
and while the positive/happy/ person using the Secret may have more of a chance of good things happening to them
Oh, no you don't. Why may they have more of a chance? Be specific.
we are not invincible.
That's right we're not - but this has bugger all to do with the LoA or the Secret.
However, lets say a prisoner had so much hope and visualized themselves getting out, being free, and feeling as if they had this happiness and freedom, while another inmate feared the worst, and constantly thought of death, who do you think would be more likely to attract freedom?
The one who actually tries to escape is the one most likely to gain their freedom. Wishing and visualising do fuck all. Wishing and visualising do not attract anything. If neither of them do anything to gain their freedom other than think about it, then neither will gain their freedom through anything other than the regular operation of the penal system.
Why do you people have such a problem understanding cause and effect?
People don't like to hear the truth, as is evidenced by this article. When people start owning their responsibility in their situations, it seems to many as if it's a condemnation or that with responsibility comes "fault." This is simply not the case. People, like this author, seem to be so obsessed with fault and blame that it overshadows the inherent solution, which is "what do we do now?" Rather than focusing on "Oh SHE SAYS JEWS MADE THE HOLOCAUST LOL WAT A BITCH," instead understand that many circumstances happened to create what eventually became known as reality. Part of this was thoughts reacting on the same frequency of the event, but not necessarily OF the event. The author of this article incorrectly states that there is a contradiction, that positive things must be specific but negative things may not be. This is also unequivocally false, positive things need not be specific. To say that thinking of yourself first above others is selfish is.. well.. just stupid if you ask me. How can you help someone if you're not around to help them? How can you donate to charities if you're not in a comfortable position to do so? How can you be a positive influence on another if you're not a positive person? This is called logic, and predates The Secret. You see, the wonderful thing about The Secret, is that even if it were not true at all... what can be the harm from practicing it? As we all know, all of life is perception. There are some good things and some bad things that happen but the majority of life is full of ambiguous events that we ourselves tie an emotion to. If, through the help of the tactics explained in The Secret, we are able to perceive things in a positive manner it will inevitably affect our life situation. This is psychology, this isn't pseudo-science. Happy people perform better in life, this is fact. I would suggest you stop judging other people's thoughts and beliefs that make them happy. By doing so you are diminishing your own credibility and only hurting yourself.
ReplyDeleteOh and by the way, this is me. I saw you said you delete Anonymous questions, so I figured I'd add this.
DeleteAlso, being responsible for the negative things that happen to you is NOT A BAD THING. When you claim responsibility you not only are saying you are the cause of your problems, but also your own solution. Placing blame onto others allows for us to wallow in our saddness, acting as the poor victim, "oh woe is me." Rather than hiding behind our problems, when we stand in front of them and own them we are able to correct them.
Anonymous/Brett Leverett:
DeleteYour patronising waffle will be treated with the respect it deserves.
People don't like to hear the truth, as is evidenced by this article
If you'd bothered to understand what was written it might have got through to you that this is indeed the point of the whole piece: That followers of the Secret don't like having the true implications of it pointed out to them. I have encountered this several times, the denial that the Secret blames the victim for what happens to them.
That Secretards don't like having this pointed out has been further shown by the responses from other Secretards since, and now including you.
It's not me saying that is what the Secret does - it's what the people who wrote it say.
When people start owning their responsibility in their situations, it seems to many as if it's a condemnation or that with responsibility comes "fault."
How was the Holocaust the fault, or the responsibility, of the victims? Try not to sound like a sociopath as you spew your answer. Remember - the creators of the Secret state explicitly that it is the victims who are to blame, their thoughts somehow created or attracted it to them. How was a 4 year old Jewish child thrown into Belsen-Bergen responsible for their situation?
People, like this author, seem to be so obsessed with fault and blame that it overshadows the inherent solution, which is "what do we do now?
I have no idea what you are even trying to say, or what point you are trying to make here. But, if you can't understand what the problem with blaming the victims is then I shouldn't be surprised to find that you are also incoherent.
Rather than focusing on "Oh SHE SAYS JEWS MADE THE HOLOCAUST LOL WAT A BITCH," instead understand that many circumstances happened to create what eventually became known as reality
No? really? Reality is complicated and not simply determined by your thoughts? That sounds like a complete denial of the central thesis of the Secret - that your thoughts create your reality. Isn't that my point?
Part of this was thoughts reacting on the same frequency of the event, but not necessarily OF the event.
That's some pure grade bullshit you're shuffling there. The term frequency is meaningless in this context - stop using terms you don't understand in places they don't fit. Did the thoughts of Holocaust victims cause the Holocaust? Yes or no. How?
The author of this article incorrectly states that there is a contradiction, that positive things must be specific but negative things may not be. This is also unequivocally false, positive things need not be specific.
The creators of the Secret say it, I just make it explicit. And that's really the problem isn't it?
Yes or no - in order to receive something from the Secret, do you have to visualise and prepare for its specific arrival or do you just think random non-specific positive thoughts until it, purely by chance, shows up? If yes - how do you know whatever it was that was positive that showed up came from those thoughts? If no - doesn't that contradict what the creators of the Secret say, that is: Ask, believe, recieve?
How do you ask without being specific?
To say that thinking of yourself first above others is selfish is.. well.. just stupid if you ask me.
Not asking you. Dictionary definition of selfish.
Continued below.
How can you help someone if you're not around to help them? How can you donate to charities if you're not in a comfortable position to do so? How can you be a positive influence on another if you're not a positive person?
ReplyDeleteNone of these require you to put yourself first in order to accomplish them. I know you desperately want to repaint the inherent selfishness and greed at the heart of the Secret as something other than what it is in order to make yourself feel better about it, but so far you have fallen flat on your arse.
This is called logic, and predates The Secret.
Again with the use of words you don't seem to understand. Stop it.
You see, the wonderful thing about The Secret, is that even if it were not true at all... what can be the harm from practicing it?
You could give up your cancer treatment and die?
As we all know, all of life is perception.
Bullshit.
If, through the help of the tactics explained in The Secret, we are able to perceive things in a positive manner it will inevitably affect our life situation. This is psychology, this isn't pseudo-science.
Positive thinking is not new - the Secret did not invent the concept not does it have a monopoly on it. Positive thinking and its effects are indeed studied by psychology. Claiming that positive thoughts link to the Universe and attract positive outcomes is most certainly not psychology - it is pseudo-science.
Happy people perform better in life, this is fact.
Cite your source and evidence please.
I would suggest you stop judging other people's thoughts and beliefs that make them happy.
And I'd pay as much attention to a suggestion from you as I would a call to go swimming from a man eating shark.
By doing so you are diminishing your own credibility and only hurting yourself.
By pointing out bullshit when I see it, and trying to ensure other people don't waste their time and money on it I am hurting myself and my credibility? Riiiiight.
What would the promotion and support of patently obvious crap premised on sociopathic greed do to your credibility, do you think?
Oh but there was more:
ReplyDeleteAlso, being responsible for the negative things that happen to you is NOT A BAD THING.
Being told you are responsible for your rape IS A BAD THING. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a sociopathic arsehole with a hole where their basic human decency should be. Scum like you make me wish the Universe did in fact pay attention to people with negative thoughts.
When you claim responsibility you not only are saying you are the cause of your problems, but also your own solution.
You really are a fucking sociopath completely devoid of compassion and empathy aren't you? Child sexual abuse victims are not the cause of their problems, anyone who suggests otherwise - like you do right here - is scum. Bravo, you fucking parasite.
Placing blame onto others allows for us to wallow in our saddness, acting as the poor victim, "oh woe is me."
Yeah, why blame the rapist when the victim is so much easier.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Rather than hiding behind our problems, when we stand in front of them and own them we are able to correct them.
Of course - it wasn't the Nazis, it was those damned Jews, gays, Romany, POWs etc. It is so obvious now, they were all "Oh poor me." as they were stripped and marched to the gas chambers, hiding behind their problems instead of standing in front of them.
There is something very very very wrong with people like you. Fuck off and die you scumbag.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSpot on. The New Age "spiritual contract" people are closely intermingled with the Secret followers. Similar to Byrne, I asked one of the followers of the Secret who loved the whole "contract" idea about the Holocaust, and she said the same thing: "They must have spiritually contracted to have that experience." In shock, I asked if she really thought all of those millions of people "spiritually chose" to be cruelly tortured and murdered and have their families destroyed. She paused, then said yes. Yes! She really did. Then she said "I don't care if I'm blowing smoke up my a**, it gives me peace." So basically, she gets peace from sticking her head in the sand, denying the violence done to millions, and deluding herself rather than being an honest, accountable member of society. Pathetic and repulsive.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny how fast the brainwashed wacks change their tune when one of THEIR children gets hurt. It's praise God, please help me. They want to pretend they are their own gods until he shows them how truly powerless they are.
DeleteThe secret is one of the best products in the self help industry.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile You Can Freely Download "The Power" By Rhonda Byrne, Both MP3 Audiobook And PDF Ebook. I came across this website last month providing The Power Audio and Ebook for free. I want to share it here with everyone because it is very useful and powerful. Download For Free: http://secretpowercircle.com
Something being the best product in the self help industry is like saying prostate cancer is the best cancer. The Secret is pseudo scientific bullshit promoted by quacks, frauds, liars and charlatans.
DeleteLMAO, yup.
DeleteThe entire concept of New Age is nothing but lies disguised as self help and love and tjit piece of garbage fits right in the same can. Crackpots.
ReplyDeleteOh, but according to some New Age delusion, you can change your dna through the frequencies you listen to lol. Avoid hard rock because it makes you angry. Sadly, these morons actually think they have stumbled on to ancient secrets all found in books. Very sorry to hear about what you're going through.
ReplyDelete